The Great Data Experiment
God and Brexit
{my Brexit hist notes: end 2016? May's red lines, withdrawal agree / Checkers mid 2017, eventually (not Jen's b-day 2018) voted down (ERG incld Boris) bigest ever, other tries; change con leader, Boris debate close down / proroguge, crash out avoided Boris told to extend; way forward Gen Elect, many promisses all sides, Get Brexit Done, Boris win big majority, leave 31jan2020, trans start ....} etc. confirmed: god back's brexit, .
What's here
Tip - use a browser view to copy headings, else jumps around
Background to - Brexit
Brexit (British Exit from European Union). A simple in-out referendum was promised on 23 January 2013 and the question was to be: to Remain in the European Union, or to Leave; the referendum happened on 23 June 2016 following 5 months of official campaigning; the result was: leave 51.9%, remain 48.1%, turnout 72.2% - turmoil ensued
and God(s)A debate about the existence of a non-physical or spiritual world, the various gods and entities that may exist, and their influence upon us and our related physical world. It includes the Abrahamic God, but also multitude of Hindu Gods and many others,
{I'm western so more examples re Adrhamic}
debates: one side of both debates needs to call on faith (a common Brexit mantra: "we need to believe in Britain & Brexit"), while the other side claims evidence. Although the God(s) debate has a long history over thousands of years and the Brexit one has existed for just a few decades, I suggest that there are common elements: one group looking at facts and figures and the other looking at a wished for situation; and both sides have their prominent cheer leaders.
Background to the debates
Brexit (British Exit from European Union)
- The Uk joined the European Economic Community (to become EU) January 1973, a confirmation referendum followed in 1975. Some were not happy, especially after the Maastricht Treaty 1992 that reformed the EEC into the EU. The European Research Group of Conservative MPs was formed 1993 with objective of UK leaving the EU. The UK Independence Party was also formed in 1993 with the same objective, but although popular, they never got a direct democratic influence, due to First Past the Post voting system,.
- Attempting to resolve a small but long running discontent David Cameron on 23 January 2013 promised a simple in-out referendum - the question was to be: to Remain in the European Union, or to Leave. The referendum happened on 23 June 2016 following 5 months of official campaigning; the result was: leave 51.9%, remain 48.1%, turnout 72.2% - turmoil ensued
- No country has ever left the EU, we had been members for over 45 years and the repercussions of leaving were very difficult to predict.
- It was argued that there were immediate gains to be made in leaving, such as the money saved in membership fees and longer term by releasing the country from EU regulations, which would also enable us to make our own trade deals with the EU and other countries.
- There were many optimistic predictions including future trading and solution of our particular problem with the EU / UK border on the island of Ireland.
- Any evidence available (reference to regulations, current trading arrangements, financial predictions, Good Friday agreement, etc.) tended to work against the leave argument, but this was derided and replaced by a need to believe in the country and our future.
- The driving force to continue with the leave objective, despite many problems, was the referendum result, which was proclaimed the greatest democratic exercise undertaken in the country and as such had to be honoured - even though many implementation difficulties existed, exasperated by a very weak government...- -... followed on from the non Grexit - Greece Exit from the EU
The God(s) debate
- In contrast the God(s) debate started long ago and initially focused more on the type of God(s) as cultures rolled on in isolation, to name but a few: Egyptian, Babylonian, Greek, Roman, Norse, Hindu, Celtic, Japanese etc. Many of the Gods and ideas of the cultures at the front of the list evolved into the Abrahamic religions of today, a significant "debate" point being the Roman Emperor Constantine the Great (AD 306-337).
- As time and integration progressed to a more compassionate ideal of love-thy-neighbour and turn-the-other-cheek, it also appears that early pragmatic tolerance of different ideas was replaced with more lively debates as to the "correct" beliefs - inevitable when combining any set of ideas.
- However, at a similar time others were looking for less spiritual explanations (but often attributed to God's plan) as to how the world and universe worked, known as Natural Philosophy From the ancient world, starting with Aristotle, to the 19th century, natural philosophy was the common term for the practice of studying nature. It was in the 19th century that the concept of "science" received its modern shape with new titles emerging such as "biology" and "biologist", "physics" and "physicist" - wiki or Materialism yyy yyy Materialist , but famously René Descartes still had to attributed the human mind to "non-physical stuff" - dualism.
- Although Natural Philosophy (now Science) and Materialism also had a long history it only came-of-age within the last few hundred years, a key point being Francis Bacon's (1561-1626) formalisation of the scientific method. Scienece and religion have jogged along together for millenia, but a serious God(s) debate is relativly recent e.g. blasphemy is still a capital offence in some countries, and the offence of blasphemy was only abolished in England and Wales in 2008 - the basis of many religious priverligese and rights are being challenged in this and many other countries today.
Both the God and Brexit debates require a degree of faith.
Similarities of debates
The adjacent Venn diagram summaries the situation - I propose that our local vicar agrees with my view that we should (should have remained) remain within the EU (R overlap),
but we don't agree on the existence of God (no overlap of G or A). On the other hand, I'm sure that the vicar and all the congregation share a common view that God exist (G overlap),
but it's probable that there's not a similar agreement about being in or out of the EU - L x% represents the proportion supporting Leave, while R y% are those within the Remain overlap.
Below is a list of similarities between the two debates, it's not a comment on religion, science or Brexit, there's good and bad in all these (we shall see about Brexit); it is about how our views are subject to our psychological features and life history.
Both sides of both arguements have the folloing in common:
- have support from inteligent eductated people - the ♥low-informed - uneducated simletons another story.
- influenced by the desirre for fame and or power - devine right of kings or becoming PM.
- Emotions and feelings play a very big part and often outweigh and take precedence over any strong evidence. How much does our core worldview see xx affect and maintain our stance?
- How much of these debates, and any long term wide ranging ones, are orchestrated by individual deliberate planning and scheming {but totalitarian states hard to oppose}, and how much evolutionary meme driven - as in xxx. The financial sector is a good example of "who / what" is in control.
A 2013 survey of 1,000 senior company executives or board members found whilst almost all said: "taking a long-term strategic view would improve corporate performance, strengthen financial returns and increase innovation", roughly half claimed to be using a period of less than 3 years in order to "generate strong short-term results" and meet this investor requirement that "had increased during the past five years" - p175, The Value of Everything, a book critical as to how the financial sector has been "allowed" (by whom / what) to extract value from production.
And one side of both arguments have the folloing in common:
- A need to call on faith as both arguments are based on unprovable propositions, the existance of a supper natural world and the UK's future after an irrevoca ble major change in international relationships e.g. believe in God; believe in the UK and our position to get a good deal.
- A "rallying-cry" based on an initial justification and premise that must be honoured regardles of the subsequent better understanding of implications - e.g. early cultural beleif in Gods and spirtit world, which lead to sacred explanations at difference with material ones that can have serious consequences; the 23 June 2016 referendum result, but execution a lot more difficut than anticipated and could be a retrograde step.
- A promise of a better future, but short on detail of how, so need faith e.g. in an propossed after life; one free from EU constraints.
- misrepresentation about the causes of current situation - your miserable hard life is nothing to do with the unfair social system, its ordained; your current socal problems are nothing to do with asterity, government policy and financial crisis, its due to EU regulation and foreigners.
CONCLUSION: We like to consider that we think with reasoning, rather than rationalising within our current ideas, but we have many psychological features that stand in the way of the reasoning ideal, emotion being an obvious one. Ideas latch on to our emotions and give our reasoning powers a hard time, much like viruses latching on to cells and challenging our immune system, and some peoples immune systems are for one reason or another stronger than others. {dramatic comparison - Intro memes / hover.}
items re phicological features (which - emotion?, ??) v debate techniques of misslead, promisees etc